Thanks, FuseU1.
I hope things turn around
for him.
[img]smile.gif[/img]
hi,
For me Thomas Lang playing is near Virgil's playing, and they are the new drummer's g?n?ration.
Before there was Vinnie, Dave, Dennis, i like to say "the DVD trio", they are always here, but, i find that new up comming drummers like Virgil, Thomas, and another you forgotten, Mr Minnemann, play powerfully with greats chops and a lot of double bass.
plus, we often see them in clinics or demo situation than on a new CD... The "DVD g?n?ration" has well know by a lot of CD with great artist in great musical situation. I have never listen Thomas or on a great Jazz fusion CD, Marco produce all his own stuff, just Virgil who live in LA has tourring with CAB/planet X and others.
I think those guys gain their popularity with clinics and d?mo, so they must do demo stuff like twirling, play quickly, double bass feel...
(sorry, for my poor english)
Thanks, FuseU1.
I hope things turn around
for him.
[img]smile.gif[/img]
Ditto on Peter's class on this board. [img]smile.gif[/img]
As far as Lang, I've pretty much stated my opinion about him before. Technically, yeah, he can play some cool licks and chops, but when you've listened to the "DVD" generation, you get spoiled by cats who are blessed with great feel as well as technical ability (in two of those three cases anyway [img]wink.gif[/img] . About ten years ago, if someone had shown me Virgil or Thomas (to a lesser degree, as Thomas isn't the player Virgil is), I probably would have been more wowed by them than I was about Weck and Vin, but no way would that happen now. No, I'm not one of those "traditionalists" who thinks the generation they saw first is automatically the best, but in this case, that's very true in my opinion. (though I still know a few who think Rich/Gadd are the ONLY two drummers in existence, and that they could never be expanded upon, which is simply close-minded and untrue....no, they can't be beaten, BUT they can certainly be expanded upon......it's that simple). As has also been stated to me before by a certain member on this board, Thomas doesn't "say" anything with his solos. This comment is absolutely true. I watched that outdoor clip of him performing in the daytime, and not ONE part of the solo really "grabbed" me or made me want to latch on to anything. He basically expanded upon one type of lick for most of the time, which is fine if you're in the practice room, but if you're in front of a room full of drummers/musicians, you'd better have something to SAY with your performance. "Jaw Dropping" parts are even MORE jaw dropping when they're NOT the whole damn solo!! See what I mean? As far as Virg....outrageous/unbelievable/extra-level/jaw-dropping/head-shaking TECHNIQUE and TECHNICAL ABILITY........would I hire him for a FEEL oriented gig with a backbeat? HELL no. Lang and Virg simply do not have the groove like the others. That's not at all to say that they won't get it with more time (as alluded to by Peter), but for now........it ain't there.
i don't know about lang but virgil has tremendous groove and feel. have you seen him live or heard the moonbabies album? that's why i think he's set apart from other technical guys. you can't get more "in the pocket" than virgil on the kinds of music he plays.
i remember when pocketplayer once thought virgil lacked groove until he saw him live at the potato. i'm sure guys like bunny consider groove when choosing a drummer.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Admittedly, I have only seen clips of Virgil playing, but judging from those, I just don't feel the groove. He's playing a solid beat, but it's not grooving at all. A part that I continually bring up is that God-awful excuse for a backbeat that he broke into during his MD 97 solo........absolutely HORRIBLE. I was sitting there PRAYING that he would get back to chops quickly. I think that he probably plays a decent pocket on really uptempo-fusiony stuff, but other than that, he has yet to prove to me personally that he can really make someone move with a backbeat. Yeah, he can smack that snare as hard as he wants with his "power drumming" style, but a power drumming beat does not a mean groove make.Originally posted by shedder:
i don't know about lang but virgil has tremendous groove and feel. have you seen him live or heard the moonbabies album? that's why i think he's set apart from other technical guys. you can't get more "in the pocket" than virgil on the kinds of music he plays.
i remember when pocketplayer once thought virgil lacked groove until he saw him live at the potato. i'm sure guys like bunny consider groove when choosing a drummer.
Out of the technical &/or conceptual giants like Vinnie, Weckl, & Donati, i hear a lot of guys [drummers AWA other instrumentalists] say they prefer a guy like Chambers' saucy groove to those other technical players... [that's not necessarily MY opin; i like each of these for their own specific style & strengths pertaining to groove, time, ideas, musicality, chops/technique, &/or feel]...
I think Lang kix a** at what he does...it is what it is...but i def hear what'cher saying about "saying" something [within the concept of the groove/music/hits itself] as opposed to "expandiong on the 'lick[s] of the week'" [which i feel a guy like Weckl is EXTREMELY good at]... something i'm constantly working on myself...
Yeah, Weckl expands on his licks, but he certainly does it in a more musical manner than Lang does at this point, and the licks themselves are mixed in to accentuate the SCHmorgasboard o' accents and motifs that Weckl gets going. Cultural Concurrence is a perfect example of this. I will always enjoy that solo because I know I'll get something a little different each time he plays it. I don't think Lang could make that happen as well.
I have seen Virgil play a
number of times and the last
time, with CAB. I had a feel-
ing he would cut the ice that
night and he did.
I love Virgil Donati and I
love what he's doing for
drums. What's more is the
guy is moving at the rate
of his speed, in terms of
his own progress.
I don't believe that there
will be anything he won't
do. I honestly believe that.
[img]cool.gif[/img]
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 21, 2003 10:14 PM: Message edited by: peter c ]</font>
There should be no question [esp to anyone around here] that Virg is a freakin monster, worthy of the "Colaiuta/Weckl Stratosphere Award"...he is pushing...no, make that shoving the limits of the instrument, within his "style"...like Vin & Dave, i think SteveH should make room for one more on his HOD site [..."a few drummers who are ahead of the graph/pushing the envelope..."] [img]wink.gif[/img] ....
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 22, 2003 05:48 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>
In regards to his technical and phrasing ability, I 100% agree with you, Fuse.
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